What George told Andy

Here, for the record, is what George Osborne told Andrew Marr about his plans for the BBC this morning:

Andrew Marr: A little bit of local housekeeping. There are some various cheerfully menacing stories about the BBC all over the - and the budget - all over the newspapers today. Standing back a little bit, what kind of BBC would you like to see?

George Osborne: Well look, the BBC is a really important national institution and a fantastic broadcaster that produces some of the best television and radio in the world, and we want to give it a sustainable future in an age where the technology is changing, where there are lots of other broadcasters out there. But the BBC is also a publicly funded public institution and so it does need to make savings and contribute to what we need to do as a country to get our house in order. So we are in discussion with the BBC. Of course we’ve got the charter renewal process going on as well and when we have conclusions we can talk about, we’ll come and talk about them.

Andrew Marr: Now one of the things...I know you can’t talk about the budget, but one of the things that is suggested is the BBC would take over the cost of licences for older people and in return there would be some kind of deal. The net effect of that according to all the papers and all the commentators would be about half a billion pounds out of the BBC’s operating money, which would be the equivalent of closing, for instance, Radio 2 and Radio 5 Live or possibly a big TV channel. Is that the kind of thing you’d be comfortable to happen on your watch? 

George Osborne: Well I remember 5 years ago doing a deal with the BBC, the then Director General Mark Thompson, where actually the BBC did make around £500 million of savings or took on 500 million pounds worth of responsibilities...

Andrew Marr: Indeed.

George Osborne: ...including things like the BBC World Service. I was told at the time by people they’re going to shut down BBC Two, they’re going to close Radio 4. They always seem to, they always seem to...

Andrew Marr (interrupting): There comes a point when it’s true.

George Osborne: ...they always seem to pick, you know, the juiciest fruit on the tree.

Andrew Marr: Yeah.

George Osborne: You know I would say the BBC’s a well-run organisation under Tony Hall. I’m absolutely sure that they can make a contribution. But I want the BBC to have a strong future and if you - and you would know this better than most, Andrew - there are massive technological changes that if we don’t address will mean the licence fee income will slowly disappear.

Andrew Marr (interrupting): Will slip away, agreed.

George Osborne: And I think therefore that’s the basis of a deal we can do.

Andrew Marr: But there is a sort of philosophical question about what kind of organisation the BBC should be. Should it be pure market failure, things that nobody else would do, or should it be making big popular programmes like, for instance, Strictly? Which side of that argument do you come down on?

George Osborne: Well I absolutely want the BBC to go on making fantastic programmes like Strictly. You know I’m straying into your world here. But look I would say you want the BBC to be producing popular programmes that people want to watch. I think if the BBC decides it’s only going to do niche things, then it loses its argument. But I think you are able to say to the BBC things like -and this is more for the charter renewal - if you look at your website, you know what’s The Times newspaper or The Telegraph newspaper or The Daily Mail or The Sun or The Mirror going to look like in ten years’ time? It’s going to be an online paper probably. And so therefore if you’ve got a website that’s got features and cooking recipes and …

Andrew Marr (interrupting): Taking their lunch.

George Osborne: ...you know effectively the BBC website becomes the national newspaper as well as the national broadcaster. And you know there are those sorts of issues which I think we...

Andrew Marr (interrupting): And that might be too much.

George Osborne: ...which I think we need to look very care… I think you used to edit a national newspaper.

Andrew Marr: Not very well.

George Osborne: You’re talking yourself down. But you know you wouldn’t want the BBC to completely crowd out national newspapers.

Andrew Marr: No.

George Osborne: And if you look at the BBC website, it’s a good product but it is becoming a bit more imperial in its ambitions.

Andrew Marr: Very interesting indeed. Imperial or otherwise, good luck on Budget Day and thanks for joining us.