Harvey Proctor v Naga Munchetty (Transcript: BBC Breakfast, this morning)

[Naga Munchetty mishandled her interview with Harvey Proctor this morning to a painful extent. Though she was right to seek to present the other side, the way she tried to talk Mr Proctor into silence - especially after he began criticising the BBC's role in the affair - was clumsy at best, especially when she then said, rather snippily, "Please let me talk and I will let you talk. That is how this works." The point was that she hadn't been letting him talk - as he himself went on to point out. Her petulant-sounding pause midway was hardly what was needed either, especially during a sensitive interview like this.]

A fraught encounter

Naga Munchetty: Former Conservative MP Harvey Proctor was among those falsely accused. He joins us now from our London newsroom. Good morning to you, Harvey Proctor. Thank you very much for talking to us on Breakfast this morning. Can you tell us about what happened when you were investigated? 

Harvey Proctor: Good morning to you, and thank you for the invitation to come on your programme. The question is a short one. The answer could take many hours. I have been under the cosh, or truncheon, of the Metropolitan Police, for nearly five years now. It is very harrowing to be investigated, or to be the centre of such an investigation for so long, and the ramifications of it. But, as people know, in shorthand what happened to me was that I lost my job, my home, and my repute as the result of a fantasist who were believed by the Metropolitan Police, and who castigated his comments as credible and true when they were neither credible nor true. They were untrue, and they were incredible. Any common sense person would realise that what he was saying was not credible. 

Naga Munchetty: Well, to pick you up on the use of the word 'credible' - that is the word the Metropolitan Police have said they found Carl Beech to be, what holes in his story do you think could have been picked up on earlier? 

Harvey Proctor: Well, quite clearly, the Metropolitan Police lied to a district judge to get search warrants to search my house and that of Lord Brammal and Lady Brittan's houses. There were numerous contradictions before the application for the search warrants and they were not deployed before the district judge. For example, they lied about who went to Mr Beech. They said he went to the police in 2014. He didn't. They went to him. They didn't look at the previous interviews he did with Wiltshire Police when he made allegations of similar, but slightly different allegations. So there were all sorts of things that the police could have done that they didn't do. Clearly, they didn't look at his mother's interviews much earlier, which cast doubt on his story. 

Naga Munchetty: And I should say, the Metropolitan Police have given as a lengthy statement but I do need to give some right of reply here. The Metropolitan Police has said, "There is no evidence or the Independent Office for Police Conduct investigation, which has concluded has said the allegations made were grave, 'Nick' made were grave, and warranted investigation. We believe those involved in applying for the search warrant acted with due diligence and in good faith at the time. There was no evidence to indicate bad faith, malice or dishonesty, no indication any of the officers may have behaved in a manner which would justify disciplinary proceedings". Erm...

Harvey Proctor: The IOPC is not an organisation fit for purpose to control and interrogate the Metropolitan Police. If you want to give the right of reply, could I suggest your programme invites Cressida Dick, the current commissioner, who lied on radio recently about these matters...

Naga Munchetty: Well...

Harvey Proctor: ...onto your programme to question her about her lies...

Naga Munchetty: And this is something...

Harvey Proctor: ...and why she has made those lies? Could I suggest that you get in touch with your home affairs correspondent for the BBC...

Naga Munchetty: OK...

Harvey Proctor: ...who messed up potentially the investigation into Mr Beech and, as Henriques said, by showing photographs to Mr Beech of children that I'm supposed to have murdered could have got in the way...

Naga Munchetty: Harvey Proctor, I'm going to interrupt you.

Harvey Proctor: ...of any criminal action against me...

Naga Munchetty: OK, I'm going to interrupt you. I'm going to interrupt you. I will...

Harvey Proctor: No, it's OK you talking across me...

Naga Munchetty: I will...I will...no, no...I will continue this conversation...

Harvey Proctor: That is because the BBC are very sensitive about any criticism...

Naga Munchetty: No, no...I will continue this conversation...

Harvey Proctor: ...whatsoever that may come your way...

Naga Munchetty: I will continue this conversation... 

Harvey Proctor: By talking across me, you're not really doing what the BBC should do, and that is to give a right to comment. And you're very sensitive about this. I understand that. I understand the BBC are sensitive in view of the criticism not just of the police but that the BBC has received in Henriques's report yesterday. 

(Pause)
Naga Munchetty: The IOPC has also found out there was no evidence regarding deliberate lying or wrongdoing by Cressida Dick, as you have just said. It also looked at the conduct...

Harvey Proctor: No, sorry! Sorry, sorry, sorry...

Naga Munchetty: Please let me talk and I will let you talk. That is how this works. 

Harvey Proctor: No, because you're now...you've just said that the IOPC have found no evidence of Cressida Dick lying. Hold on. The IOPC have not interviewed Cressida Dick. They didn't know that she was involved. In fact Sir Richard Henriques didn't know that she was involved. She wasn't interviewed by Richard Henriques. Invite Cressida Dick onto your programme, invite me onto the programme, and let's have a debate about it. She won't come. 

Naga Munchetty: Sir Richard has also...I want to get to how this has impacted you, but I need to do my job as well, and Sir Richard has...

Harvey Proctor: Well, I respect your work very much, but you must not invite people onto your programme and then not allow them to speak. 

Naga Munchetty: I am allowing you to speak, and I will allow you to speak...

Harvey Proctor: You are now, but you weren't before.

Naga Munchetty: ...but I also need to give a right of reply, rather than letting you say things that are potentially incorrect, or when people don't have a right to reply. Sir Richard...

Harvey Proctor: (Removes earpiece) Sorry, I'm  not having this. I'm sorry. (Leaves the set). 

Naga Munchetty: Harvey Proctor, thank you for your time. Harvey Proctor, former Conservative MP. And I think what's very clear there is the impact that this investigation has had on his life, as he said at the very beginning, how it has impacted on his life. Harvey Proctor talking to us this morning. Former Conservative MP. 

Charlie Stayt: Yes, clear from that it's a story that has affected him very personally. And let's have a look at the time now. 16 minutes past 9.